steeler wrote:
Now why be such a wet blanket? 
 
At least Kurtster found a confused friend.

Ah, the Daily Show solves the mystery. Kurt no doubt sits somewhere on this GOP diagnostic spectrum: 

 ColdMiser wrote:

 to pwn the noobs left

 rgio wrote:
Perfectly stated! Even as the walls cave in on them they are willing to die on the cross for what? 

 kurtster wrote:


You seem to argue that since a number of us here didn't agree with your claims that Biden had declined, our judgments on Trump, J6 etc. are invalid. 

However, most of us CHANGED OUR MINDS once we saw Biden's disastrous debate performance against Trump. We adjusted our opinions in the light of more facts. Frankly, WaPo and the NYT couldn't stop printing stories and op-eds about Biden's decline after the debate. 

You, however, don't change your mind—even though there are now MOUNTAINS of evidence detailing what Trump and his allies planned to do on January 6. For the love of God, Peter Navarro wrote about it in a f%GIN' BOOK ("In Trump Time: A Journal of America's Plague Year" published Nov. 2021). Ken Chesebro testified. DOJ had access to his emails and those of John Eastman. 

You also don't change your mind when confronted, day after day, with Trump's mental decline. "They're eating the dogs, they're eating the cats"—if Kamala Harris had uttered something like that, her campaign would have ended on the spot. But you can't or won't consider the possibility that Trump is aging badly and sliding into the dementia that overtook his father. 

As for the future, you still don't get it do you? Wow Kurt, hope your family wasn't depending on the $35 price cap on insulin because Trump got rid of that as fast as he could. Also gone: the price control negotiations for drugs through Medicare. Scott Bessent is already talking about cuts to Medicaid and Medicare to pay for tax cuts (skewed to the ultra-rich). 

And good luck working in public, buddy!  We all know that you and likely your wife are immunocompromised (a diabetes side-effect) so the Trump admin's curb on information from and between govt. agencies as well as funding cuts are going to seriously impede a national response to another pandemic, say like the bird flu. 

You run away from facts. You wallow in conspiracy theories, grievance and phobias about people who don't look like you. You refuse to take off the Trump goggles that make him look like America's savior. 

You regularly remind me of a Ben Franklin saying: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

 kurtster wrote:
Your persistent lack of reason is tiring.

Being fooled by anything Biden only matters if I would have considered alternatives.  Trump is not an acceptable alternative.  Critical evaluation of Biden's abilities isn't necessary when I know I have 2 choices, and one is them is intent on destroying the fabric of the country in an attempt to collect as much wealth and power as possible, at the expense of everyone and anyone possible.  He's selling the government to the highest bidder.  

I don't see Trump as the end of humanity, WW III, or some other conspiracy-based rhetoric provided to the cult as justification for your highness.    I don't believe anyone, but am willing to live in the gray between Trump's divinity and Biden's handlers.  The left at least believes is foolish things like the peaceful transfer of power, and the Constitution.  How quaint.

I have no choice but for you to believe what you want.  The programming on the Right has tapped into an emotional self-absorbed anger against which reason doesn't stand a chance.

 rgio wrote:

add in my #5, does that make a Quorum? 

 rgio wrote: 
And you insist that you were not fooled, ever.  Ok, not believing it for a minute based upon all of your rhetoric to date.

Does Maher still say that ?  You might want to check.

This simply confirms how your judgments are formed.  How you see the future of the US under Trump as a descent into end times and WW III and still would vote for Joe knowing what you know up to this very moment is what it is.  It demonstrates how you still believe the same people who kept telling you that Joe was perfectly fine and in full charge.

Speaks for itself.  You believe what you want to believe and I'll let you believe what you want to believe in.  I will, the same as you do with me, remind you of the same as needs apply.

 rgio wrote:
Thank you.

 kurtster wrote:
Judgement... that's your bedrock?

It wasn't that anyone believed in Joe, it's that the alternative is unacceptable.  As Bill Maher said, I would have voted for a head in a jar of liquid.

Fooled?  Not in the least.  But if you think the world doesn't think Trump is a grifter and a joke, and Americans are clueless for having re-elected him, your conspiracy based universe is hopeless. The US has damaged it reputation and national security beyond to tariff bullshit.  At least the CCP is no longer a threat... since TikTok is now paying off Trump.

Trusting the judgement of anyone who thought that Joe was physically and mentally able to be POTUS up until just a few moths ago, despite all of the evidence presented along the way showing otherwise is laughable.  You all bought and then resold the narrative much to your own now lack of any credible judgment going forward.

You do not get off that easy by ignoring your own lapses in judgement.

No, the whole world wasn't fooled.  Just you, as in you all.

 islander wrote:
Count me as #4.

The entire conversation, and our place in the world, would have been unimaginable just 10 years ago.  

 Red_Dragon wrote:

+3 

The storming of the Capitol building and interruption of the electoral vote count was only part of a larger plan, documented in emails and sworn testimony about communications. As outlined in John Eastman's memos and Peter Navarro's "Green Bay Sweep", Republicans in Congress would challenge the validity of the vote count in seven battleground states. The electoral college votes for those states would be challenged in court or dismissed outright and VP Mike Pence would decide that Trump had won the majority of the remaining electoral votes and thus the election. 

There was also a plan to push the legal challenges all the way to the Supreme Court which would "solve" the "controversy" of the disputed votes by declaring that the presidential election would be determined by a majority vote in the House of Representatives. 

So it's very convenient to claim that the January 6 riot was a simple, peaceful protest that got out of hand, but that's self-serving bu||$h*^. And no, repeating a LIE over and over doesn't make it more real or true. 

 steeler wrote:

+2

 steeler wrote:
+1 to all of this. 

This really should be in the stuff we shouldn't have to say thread. Unfortunately...

 Jiggz wrote:
You have bought into narratives put forth by Trump and his supporters that are not supported by the facts nor the law.

Whether or not one believes what happened on January 6 rose to the level of an insurrection (I do), it was not a peaceful protest. No one was charged with insurrection, but members of the Proud Boys and Oathkeepers were charged with and convicted of seditious conspiracy. Look that one up.

The trials were conducted like any other trials under the American system of justice. The defendants were afforded due process, convicted by juries, and sentenced by judges. What exculpatory evidence was destroyed? What basic rights were denied the detainees?

One should ask: What were those who entered the Capitol trying to do? What was their goal? Why was it insufficient to stage the “protest” outside of the Capitol? It should be instructive that the members of Congress assembled to certify the results of the election had to flee the building and the voting was delayed for hours. This was not a peaceful protest. It was intentional. Windows were broken to allow entry into the Capitol. Law enforcement officers trying to prevent entry into the Capitol were assaulted over a period of hours. Many suffered serious injuries. Tell Michael Fanone, who suffered a heart attack and brain damage after being beaten and tazed by some of the “peaceful protesters,” that no crimes were committed.

Sure, there were people who entered the Capitol who were just caught up in the wave of emotions. Many others, though, knew what they were doing and why. They came to the “peaceful protest” prepared for battle and armed with things like bear spray. They wanted to stop the certification of the election — not just protest.

Trump and his supporters have put forth different narratives as to who was responsible, like follow the bouncing ball. The day it was happening, they said it was instigated by “Antifa.” They also said they were lured into the Capitol by welcoming law enforcement, a trap set for them. Never mind the video of those scaling the walls, breaking windows, and engaging in battle with law enforcement officers. Then there were allegations, echoed by you, that FBI-sent instigators started it all. Anything but what is clearly shown in the many videos.

This is not South Africa during apartheid. These were criminal acts that deserved to be prosecuted, which they were — fairly. The primary false narrative here is the one put forth by Trump: that these were patriots who were subject to political trials and then held hostage because of their peacefully expressing their opposing political views. I mean, come on.

Jacob Chandler (sic; Chansley)? The QAnon Shaman? You consider that whack job to be a credible source? Speaks for itself.

 Jiggz wrote: 
+1  100%

 steeler wrote:


Well, I have never considered it an insurrection, and nobody has been charged with insurrection, nor do I consider it to have been anything more than a bit of a riot, that began calmly enough but was stoked by the actions of several.

I think actually it was a Fedsurrection....a few video clips I saw had moments that looked a lot like the things that used to happen in apartheid South Africa back in the day where a crowd was salted with instigators to get the crowd to cross a line that opened up the justification for cops opening fire or for video tapes to be scoured to ID faces and bundle people up and even disappear them etc....I have said elsewhere that it looked like the operations that used to occur regularly in apartheid South Africa.

I think that people being sentenced to years in jail when they weren't even in Washington at the time is also very reminiscent of the old SA, disproportionately harsh sentences, detainees being denied basic rights....basically political prisoners....all of it stank and still stinks.
The destruction of esculpatory evidence, no real attempt to identify the pipe bomber and the mass of questions around the whole pipe bomb narrative, Ray Epps, Wray unable to say that there were zero FBI operators in the crowd etc etc etc...we have seen it all before in apartheid South Africa.

Then...Biden pardoning the J6 committee (improperly constituted) and their staff (for destroying evidence and other things) just confirms it to me.

What has happened now is that those political prisoners who did little to nothing on the day have been released....long overdue to my mind.
The cop who killed Ashley Babbitt should be held accountable.
Nancy Pelosi should answer some questions.
The censorship around this topic should be investigated.
There will be investigations, there will be hearings, the truth will always come out.
It always does.
I look forward to it.

I have listened to several long-form interviews with J6'ers, Jacob Chandler among them....what happened to them should not happen in America.
It should not happen anywhere, but especially not in America.
Maybe in Zimbabwe, but not in America.

It was no insurrection, no attempt to overthrow the government, or anything like that.....it was people exercising their right to protest against things that were happening and expressing their doubts about the veracity and fairness of the 2020 election.

It happened exactly like it would have in apartheid South Africa, a known planned peaceful rally or event being opportunistically turned into a riot, a narrative constructed around it, the government media spinning that narrative, and everything being twisted and used to imprison political opposition.

 Jiggz wrote:
What are your thoughts about Trump providing clemency to all of those convicted of crimes committed during the assault on the Capitol on January 6, 2021?

 kcar wrote:


Well...the blanket pre-emptive pardons for his family that he signed on the way out the door kinda confirmed what everyone who doesn't watch the televised mental institution called MSNBC already knew.
Only problem is...the demented twat forgot to pardon himself...
Pardoning Milley, Fauci, the J6 committee plus their staff....yeh, as far as I am concerned over here in Western Europe every Russian disinformation action and conspiracy theory has just been verified as true.

Saracasm aside, the fact that he gave Hunter an unconditional pardon dating back to 2014 tells me all I need to know, including explaining the backlash and subsequent impeachment of Trump for having the temerity to call Ukrainian president with a few questions....

Your mileage will obviously vary.