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black321

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Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 11, 2025 - 10:30am




The differences and intentions are obvious, but under both dems and repubs, the federal government has actively engaged in economic affairs through strategic subsidies, ownership stakes, and executive directives moving our economy more towards China "state capitalism."  

The U.S. Marches Toward State Capitalism With American Characteristics

A generation ago conventional wisdom held that as China liberalized, its economy would come to resemble America’s. Instead, capitalism in America is starting to look like China.

Recent examples include President Trump’s demand that Intel’s chief executive resign; the 15% of certain chip sales to China that Nvidia and Advanced Micro Devices will share with Washington; the “golden share” Washington will get in U.S. Steel as a condition of Nippon Steel’s takeover; and the $1.5 trillion of promised investment from trading partners Trump plans to personally direct.

The federal government has often waded into the corporate world. It commandeered production during World War II and, under the Defense Production Act, emergencies such as the Covid-19 pandemic. It bailed out banks and car companies during the 2007-09 financial crisis. Those, however, were temporary expedients.

Former President Joe Biden went further, seeking to shape the actual structure of industry. His Inflation Reduction Act authorized $400 billion in clean-energy loans. The Chips and Science Act earmarked $39 billion in subsidies for domestic semiconductor manufacturing. Of that, $8.5 billion went to Intel, giving Trump leverage to demand the removal of its CEO over past ties to China. (Intel so far has refused.)

State capitalism is a means of political, not just economic, control. Xi ruthlessly deploys economic levers to crush any challenge to party primacy. In 2020, Alibaba co-founder Jack Ma, arguably the country’s most famous business leader, criticized Chinese regulators for stifling financial innovation. Retaliation was swift. Regulators canceled the initial public offering of Ma’s financial company, Ant Group, and eventually fined it $2.8 billion for anticompetitive behavior. Ma briefly disappeared from public view.

Trump has similarly deployed executive orders and regulatory powers against media companies, banks, law firms and other companies he believes oppose him, while rewarding executives who align themselves with his priorities.

In Trump’s first term, CEOs routinely spoke out when they disagreed with his policies such as on immigration and trade. Now, they shower him with donations and praise, or are mostly silent.

American democracy constrains the state through an independent judiciary, free speech, due process and the diffusion of power among multiple levels and branches of government. How far state capitalism ultimately displaces free-market capitalism in the U.S. depends on how well those checks and balances hold up.




black321

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Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 8, 2025 - 7:40am

 R_P wrote:



looks like the two grumpy guys from the muppets
R_P

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Posted: Aug 7, 2025 - 4:37pm


Red_Dragon

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Location: Gilead


Posted: Aug 7, 2025 - 2:32pm

 R_P wrote:



That's exactly where we are. End-stage Capitalism.
R_P

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Posted: Aug 7, 2025 - 1:26pm


black321

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Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 7, 2025 - 7:37am

 black321 wrote:

Interesting discussion. Builds some of the internal discussions i've had on the failures of capitalism, the conflicts between self interest and cooperation as it relates to the invisible hand. 
The idea that some widely accepted truths about our economy are merely assumptions—ones that may actually distort how the economy is meant to function

As discussed, alone, a selfish organism outcompetes. But, as a group, those w less selfish individuals outcompete. Selfishness undermines group welfare. It becomes a cancer - a selfish cell in the body.

The problem isn’t with markets themselves, but with the way they’re structured. History shows that government control of production and supply can be just as problematic—if not worse—than the issues we see in today’s capitalist systems.
Rather than corporatism, whereby fewer companies dominate production/supply, and fewer employees dominate the payroll (wage gaps), we need more coops, esops…to deal with the problem of individual selfishness and excessive accumulation of wealth.

The idea that ‘greed is good’ doesn’t have to define capitalism or free markets. But we—and more specifically, figures within the Reagan administration—did just that when they framed a company’s primary goal as maximizing shareholder wealth. In other words, a bad ideology was created and reinforced by us.




Along similar lines, I came across this story, 

From the New York Times:

"Running a small wine business speaks to the romantic side of any winemaker’s ambition. Nobody aims to become a cog in a corporate operation, spinning the gerbil wheel of paperwork, committee meetings and goals set by bean counters.

"The aim instead is to express a personal vision through your own independent brand, farming according to your standards, making the wines you want to make, doing things your way … And yet, for even some of the most successful such winemakers, the journey can be riddled with hazards. Financial pitfalls abound as independence might come at the cost of avoiding meddlesome but wealthy investors. Climate change has made each vintage a potential disaster, with once rare calamities like spring frosts, drought, hail and wildfires becoming an annual worry … Add in the current wine economy: decreasing sales, sagging consumption and public health warnings, and you’ve got trouble no matter how popular or critically acclaimed your brand might be.

"In Sonoma County, responding to exactly this situation, five independent winemakers have merged into a sort of collective in which ownership of six brands is shared but each brand will maintain its integrity with the founders retaining operative control.

"The winemakers will share resources and expertise, collaborate on unlovable chores like paperwork and other administrative tasks, and aim to achieve greater efficiency and economies of scale by operating as a larger unit.

"The collective includes Martha Stoumen of Martha Stoumen Wines, Noah and Kelly Dorrance of Reeve Wines and BloodRoot Wines, Sam Bilbro of Idlewild Wines and David Drummond of Overshine and Comunità. Mr. Drummond, a former chief legal officer for Alphabet, the parent company of Google, will be the founding partner and primary investor in what is now called the Overshine Collective."

The goal, the Times writes, is the avoid what often seems to be an inevitable outcome - the sale of the business to a corporation or conglomerate, in which personal vision and personality can be subsumed by process, bureaucracy and lowest common denominator thinking.

I think this is smart, and encouraging, and I wonder if it could be a model for other businesses in other segments of the the industry, inn both retail and manufacturing. I'd love it if small and independent companies could find strength in numbers, perhaps developing new alliances and fresh business models that could allow them to remain independent longer.





black321

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Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 7, 2025 - 7:30am

I took a look at inflation adjusted gas and food prices, compared to the 1970s.

Gas, came in near where we are now, just over $3 a gallon.

Food prices mostly came in lower. L-T affordability of food has improved, thanks to productivity gains, technological advancements in agriculture, and enhanced supply chains, which, at least up to the pandemic, kept food inflation low for the past few decades.


Business Insider

Item1970s Price (nominal)2025 Equivalent (2025 $)2025 Actual Price
Eggs (dozen)$0.61 (1970)~$5.13~$4.95
Bread (lb)$0.36 (1975)~$2.20~$1.93
Milk (½ gal)$0.785 (1975)~$4.79~$4.03
Beef (lb)$1.03 (1975)~$6.28~$2.42
Key takeaways:
  • Eggs and milk are slightly cheaper today than their inflation-adjusted equivalents.
  • Bread is still somewhat less costly today, although close.
  • Beef is significantly cheaper today, suggesting improved long-term affordability.

Doing the same for rent was a bit alarming.
  • 1975, the median gross monthly rent was about $148 per month.
  • Adjusted for inflation to 2025 dollars, this is approximately $805 per month. (CPI inflation factor from 1975 to 2025 is roughly 5.43×)(bls.gov, in2013dollars.com)






R_P

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Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 6, 2025 - 4:49pm


Isabeau

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Location: sou' tex
Gender: Female


Posted: Aug 6, 2025 - 1:34pm

 R_P wrote:

Big beautiful tariffs/taxes




With BUSINESS and AMERICANS Paying.  This is a Federal Sales Tax. Call it what it is.
R_P

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Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 6, 2025 - 1:31pm


R_P

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Gender: Male


Posted: Aug 2, 2025 - 10:58am

Was on Netflix for a while
Requiem for the American Dream 2015

R_P

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Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 30, 2025 - 10:06am

Big beautiful tariffs/taxes

R_P

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Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 29, 2025 - 7:45pm

Big Beautiful Tariffs. Time to hoard the TP again
P&G to raise prices on nearly a quarter of products due to tariff costs
R_P

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Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 25, 2025 - 12:22pm

Venmo, PayPal users can now send money to the US government to help pay down $36.7T national debt
black321

black321 Avatar

Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 22, 2025 - 2:13pm

Interesting discussion. Builds some of the internal discussions i've had on the failures of capitalism, the conflicts between self interest and cooperation as it relates to the invisible hand. 
The idea that some widely accepted truths about our economy are merely assumptions—ones that may actually distort how the economy is meant to function

As discussed, alone, a selfish organism outcompetes. But, as a group, those w less selfish individuals outcompete. Selfishness undermines group welfare. It becomes a cancer - a selfish cell in the body.

The problem isn’t with markets themselves, but with the way they’re structured. History shows that government control of production and supply can be just as problematic—if not worse—than the issues we see in today’s capitalist systems.
Rather than corporatism, whereby fewer companies dominate production/supply, and fewer employees dominate the payroll (wage gaps), we need more coops, esops…to deal with the problem of individual selfishness and excessive accumulation of wealth.

The idea that ‘greed is good’ doesn’t have to define capitalism or free markets. But we—and more specifically, figures within the Reagan administration—did just that when they framed a company’s primary goal as maximizing shareholder wealth. In other words, a bad ideology was created and reinforced by us.


R_P

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Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 14, 2025 - 3:27pm

Racket
Trump touts weapon sales to NATO for Ukraine and threatens Russia with 100% tariffs
President Trump on Monday threatened to punish Russia with heavy tariffs on countries that trade with Moscow if the Kremlin fails to reach a ceasefire deal with Ukraine by September, while promising Kyiv billions of dollars worth of military equipment.

"We're going to be doing very severe tariffs if we don't have a deal in 50 days," Trump said during a White House meeting with NATO Secretary-General Mark Rutte. "Tariffs at about 100%, you'd call them secondary tariffs."

It was his latest warning against Russian President Vladimir Putin, as Trump becomes increasingly frustrated with the Kremlin leader over his continued war in Ukraine.

President Trump explained that NATO countries would acquire U.S.-made weapons, including Patriot air defense missile systems, and that those countries would provide them to Ukraine. (...)

black321

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Location: An earth without maps
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 14, 2025 - 7:11am

Yes, seems like AI or just very poorly written? 

The Invisible Hand is self interest, not greed...unless your economic education comes from Hollywood. 
Greed—whether monetary or political—has been an unavoidable issue of every economic system...none of which are 100% capitalist or socialist. 
There are unique problems with capitalism
A hundred years ago, movements emerged to address some of these issues—through unions, OSHA, FTC, banking rules, social programs.
Paradoxically, as socialist states adopted more liberal market economies, capitalist countries seem to be dismantling the very protections those movements fought for.
Perhaps the biggest problem is the excess accumulation of wealth...which is becoming a bigger problem as a result of this dismantling.


oldviolin

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Location: esse quam videri
Gender: Male


Posted: Jul 9, 2025 - 7:45am

 R_P wrote:
Free Markets, Fixed Beliefs
Market fundamentalism posits a transformative alchemy, wherein the base metal of selfishness is transmuted into the golden calf of social progress. This ideology is predicated on the notion that deliberate coordination, or central planning, is emphatically unnecessary and, more to the point, deleterious, as it disincentives animal spirits. The almighty “invisible hand” possesses inherent wisdom, rendering any institutional means of oversight not only superfluous but actively detrimental to its salvational promises.



Idealized postulates or AI or both? The vocab is the clue.
R_P

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Posted: Jul 9, 2025 - 7:31am

Free Markets, Fixed Beliefs
Market fundamentalism posits a transformative alchemy, wherein the base metal of selfishness is transmuted into the golden calf of social progress. This ideology is predicated on the notion that deliberate coordination, or central planning, is emphatically unnecessary and, more to the point, deleterious, as it disincentives animal spirits. The almighty “invisible hand” possesses inherent wisdom, rendering any institutional means of oversight not only superfluous but actively detrimental to its salvational promises.

These propositions constitute not merely an oversimplification, but a resounding misrepresentation of the actuality of capitalist exchange relations. Consequently, economic activity stemming from such zealous adherence engenders and exacerbates social inequalities, precisely because it deliberately disregards prevailing social conditions. By prioritizing abstract economic models over tangible human experience, it fails to account for injustices and vulnerabilities faced by populations.

In a system where selfishness reigns supreme, the principal aims to maximize their gain, while the agent endeavors to maximize their own. This divergence in objectives, by definition, generates social tension. Two fundamental concepts, not mutually exclusive, elucidate these imbalances: information asymmetry and asymmetric power.

kcar

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Posted: Jul 8, 2025 - 8:24pm

 islander wrote:


Jesus, even the headline - "


Trump says new tariff deadline 'not 100 percent firm'



"

why would anyone bother with a trade deal?  The R is pretty questionable, but the rest of this century is going to belong to the balance of that acronym.


As economist Justin Wolfers keeps pointing out, why would businesses invest in new manufacturing facilities if they can't be sure that tariffs (and thus increased prices) are here to stay? Those kind of investments call for 50-100 year forecasts according to Wolfers. 

So this tariff tango dance isn't driving manufacturing back to the US. 
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